Internet Censorship

so the Australian government, or some within it are trying to push a censorship plan, the general idea is to have a website blacklist, not only will those of us in Australia have to put up with 'less' internet, itl also slow down our already pitiful internet speeds. Thoughts? have at ye'. Im sure other countries have tried to push bill's similar to this. My personal opinion is that the internet should remain 'free'.

Over all, it sounds like a horrible idea to me. It would be like having what my school has: more than half of the sites that are deemed "inappropriate" would be completely inaccessible because someone said "Shit" on the site. Ohhhhh, it's so scary! Someone said a "bad word", so therefore the site's banned! Oh no, there's a naked chick on that site! Oh no, that's a site about a horror book! Better block it!

To be quite honest, I think censorship in general is a little overdone. If people complain about a woman - fully clothed mind you - who doesn't happen to have a bra on that day, and people make a big deal about that, it seems like...well, something that shouldn't be made such a big deal about.

So what if there's a naked chick on some site? If you aren't looking for that kind of stuff in the first place, chances are it probably won't come up. Granted, there are cases where that kind of stuff simply pops up unexpectedly, but if that's the case, and you don't like it, then find another site to look at! It's not that hard to choose the second one down on your search engine.

Speaking of search engines, I'm pretty sure search engines commonly have a Safe Search function or something like that already, don't they?

theariesfantasy wrote:

so the Australian government, or some within it are trying to push a censorship plan, the general idea is to have a website blacklist, not only will those of us in Australia have to put up with 'less' internet, itl also slow down our already pitiful internet speeds. Thoughts? have at ye'. Im sure other countries have tried to push bill's similar to this. My personal opinion is that the internet should remain 'free'.

Did they ever mention why they wished to do this exactly ? I'm sure it won't save it from the status of utter nonsense, but frankly I am curious on how they will try to justify this ...

i believe the main force behind the push is to "protect our children" sorta thing, so u got the stuck up religious groups and their kind also behind this.

https://www.getup.org.au/files/campaigns/conroys_greatfirewall_factsheet.pdf

its a bit biased obviously because... well those of us that arent complete retards will try to fight back or at the very least sign petitions and show our support. But you get the general gist of what hes trying to implement.

id also like to point out that there are heaps of free ways for parents to restrict their kids, not saying that its a good thing, but you know, your kids... you gutta take control. my router has a keyword blocking list and a website blocking list, so lets just assume that other routers have this function too, its not hard for a parent to write in a few obvious key words and call it a day, if he wants to drop some cash there are tonnes of firewalls and restrictive software out there. I really dont think that everyone should suffer for the sake of "children", when there are already answers to their parents' problems.

not to mention that this should be the parents' responsibility in the first place.

theariesfantasy wrote:

i believe the main force behind the push is to "protect our children" sorta thing, so u got the stuck up religious groups and their kind also behind this.

https://www.getup.org.au/files/campaigns/conroys_greatfirewall_factsheet.pdf

its a bit biased obviously because... well those of us that arent complete retards will try to fight back or at the very least sign petitions and show our support. But you get the general gist of what hes trying to implement.

id also like to point out that there are heaps of free ways for parents to restrict their kids, not saying that its a good thing, but you know, your kids... you gutta take control. my router has a keyword blocking list and a website blocking list, so lets just assume that other routers have this function too, its not hard for a parent to write in a few obvious key words and call it a day, if he wants to drop some cash there are tonnes of firewalls and restrictive software out there. I really dont think that everyone should suffer for the sake of "children", when there are already answers to their parents' problems.

not to mention that this should be the parents' responsibility in the first place.

Yeah, generally speaking, people's parenting skills suck. That's not to say that there aren't good parents, nor is it saying that I would make any better of a parent than the other person, but there are some obvious things about parenting that a lot of people completely miss the point on.

And besides, after all that, the children are gonna have to learn about all that "good stuff" at one point or another.

@hinatalover, my school has a similar thing though only sites that are directly and specifically allowed aren't blocked; thi turns the once mighty research tool of the internet into one-part christian propaganda and two-parts mildly relevant wiki sites.

In my view Censorship is in a very bad thing, on the "Think about the children" front aeris is right, some people have to learn to parent their children. People, your children are at some point going to see genitalia, at very least their own, this is nothing to be ashamed of!

I will admit that pornography often portrays an unreal view on sex (ie. girls don't scream for more when you touch their elbows) and that some people on the internet are simply not worth our time but presented to kids with the right guidance even these can be valuable learning tools.

Censorship in general just seems wrong doesn't it? Look at the major examples of censorship in history,all have led to worse trouble than what was trying to be censored
- witch trials --> censoring free thinking women --> led to abuse of land rights and a negative perception of Christianity and religion in general
- censorship on communist ideas in favour of the blacklist by America in the 50's --> damaged the worlds view of America by turning the land of the free doctrine on its head
- current censors including N. Korea, China and Australia seems to be trying to join (no R rating Internet censors etc)

It is my belief that censorship is a not a good idea because when it is in place it is impossible for a government to NOT use it inapropriately, simply put no government is free of bias and as a result any form of censorship through eradication will end badly for all parties involved.

Wow, I need to learn to stop typing...

What you speak of is the abuse of censorship. I strongly believe that some things like nazism and other hatred-mongering stuff SHOULD be censored. Right now, here where I live (Poland) we have a major problem with escallating hatred towards the Police, which ended in several assaults on police officers done by teenagers. Some officers were brutally beaten, one died from the knife wound. It all started with a hip hop band singing about fukkin the police (in general). They even started a company producing clothes with anti-police phrases on them. I disgress, but it nicely shows how some things simply should not be allowed in public. And internet is a kind of public, even though everyone feel anonymous. Same goes for pedo-porn. It simply should not be allowed.

Who decides what the public do and do not see then?
I don't know the facts of the situation in Poland right now but if the band had been censored on the suspicion that the publishing of the song would end with police being attacked violently, not knowing the outcome for sure, would be a breach of the band's right to free speech (human rightsI have no idea what the law is in poland though I expect being a signatory of the UDHR this is a right upheld). Of course then we move into the area of slander and of education;
ie: was the reason behind the bands song political or promotional (for an image?) and:
was the song simply ignored by the media, was it hyped by the media or was it analysed?

You're right, the internet is public, I don't believe in public censorship either.

Of course I don't think people should be viewing kiddie-porn, this is an area where I am something of a hypocrite, I am entirely against censorship but feel this needs to GO; so the solution from my point of view must be the discovery of what it is that makes people post and seek out kiddie-porn, then changing this.

Yay for disussion!!!

It would be no suspicion, they namely encourage people to hate police in most of their songs, without choosing the nicest words, ya know what I mean? Media didn't need to hype it, this sort of music has it's own environment, it's not like they're gonna air it on MTV PL. Before anyone noticed, the wave of hatred was too big to be ignored. I only hope that it will burn out with time...

What makes people go for kiddy porn? Dunno, but I guess castrating them would do the trick.

Actually, castration contrary to popular belief doesn't halt sexual desire, if anything we should try a frontal labotony program, that seems to make people more docile.

If The band's songs are specifically inciting public violence directed at the police then I do not support that (unless of course it stems from police violence, oppression etc). However, my question is: Should this situation be prevented from ever being known (censorship) or should we have the oportunity to learn from what is being put forward (consideration). Again, not knowing the full situation I cannot make a true judgement on this particular situation.
Can you pm me the band name so I can begin to understand what the situation is?

Oh and before I forget: "Every wave crests and every wave ebbs, all we need do is weather the tide"

Huh, that was a short one
Yay for Stoicism!!!

yea i agree that you cant censor something like that. if it was censored there would be a massive problem with the polish government, everyone would know and everyone would retaliate. the problem with censorship is... where will it end? once 1 thing is censored then EVERYTHING is open to be censored. i am in no way supporting child abuse etc. but there are ways to stop this other then censorship. censoring something isnt the quick fix that will make all the problems go away.

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It would be no suspicion, they namely encourage people to hate police in most of their songs, without choosing the nicest words, ya know what I mean? Media didn't need to hype it, this sort of music has it's own environment, it's not like they're gonna air it on MTV PL. Before anyone noticed, the wave of hatred was too big to be ignored. I only hope that it will burn out with time...

if not this, then something else would of happened, censoring something from the internet doesnt stop it from happening... or being on the internet. emails are impossible to monitor, they can just use VPN's or even bit torrent to share whatever it is theyre gunna share. what if they did censor that song? then what? you think thatl stop people downloading it? censorship cant stop word of mouth either.

Even so, there should be at least a sign of disapproval. Apathy is as bad as censorship. Some rich fuk-ups sing about killing the cops, encouraging kids from the streets to do so, telling them it's cool and stuff, MAKING BIG MONEY out of this, and what? Should they be allowed to do so? Tell me it's not a bad thing to do.

Of course a simple censorship won't solve the problem. But something needs to be done in situations like this. I'm afraid I don't know what should be done, but still... argh.

By the way. Due to the increasing violence of young hoolingans, police will be granted more priveleges, both with using force and/or firearms to ensure officers' safety. I presume that with time it will look more and more like the police in US. It most likely won't stop the violence.

What is my point, is that the freedom of speech is abused by many people. Abused the same way the censorship is abused. Some wise guy said "the freedom of a man ends, where freedom of another begins" or something along these lines. Internet, TV, or what not, it's always the same. How... CAN we change it?

Cromell wrote:

What you speak of is the abuse of censorship. I strongly believe that some things like nazism and other hatred-mongering stuff SHOULD be censored. Right now, here where I live (Poland) we have a major problem with escallating hatred towards the Police, which ended in several assaults on police officers done by teenagers. Some officers were brutally beaten, one died from the knife wound. It all started with a hip hop band singing about fukkin the police (in general). They even started a company producing clothes with anti-police phrases on them. I disgress, but it nicely shows how some things simply should not be allowed in public. And internet is a kind of public, even though everyone feel anonymous. Same goes for pedo-porn. It simply should not be allowed.

So what will censoring "hate mongering stuff" do ? Rappers have used the N word like a vowel , why should they not be allowed to do so ? Because it's stupid ? (Tough cookies, free speech) I will magically turn racist against blacks by hearing or veiwing the word ? (Nonsense)

If they do a crime , punish them, otherwise you have no right to complain.

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Even so, there should be at least a sign of disapproval. Apathy is as bad as censorship. Some rich fuk-ups sing about killing the cops, encouraging kids from the streets to do so, telling them it's cool and stuff, MAKING BIG MONEY out of this, and what? Should they be allowed to do so? Tell me it's not a bad thing to do.

Killing cops is bad. The singers can hardly be blamed for someone drawing some random message from their song ( And if they actually do sing the words "Kill a cop" no one actually has to do it now do they?)

and when someone talks about how they like this sort of song do you not show some manner of dispproval ?

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Of course a simple censorship won't solve the problem. But something needs to be done in situations like this. I'm afraid I don't know what should be done, but still... argh.

Hey you ! Don't think about that ! Hey Johnson ! That sentence could be taken the wrong way !

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By the way. Due to the increasing violence of young hoolingans, police will be granted more priveleges, both with using force and/or firearms to ensure officers' safety. I presume that with time it will look more and more like the police in US. It most likely won't stop the violence.

Shame on the us for putting criminals in jail , I suppose a slap on the wrist and a wag of the finger will keep rapists from raping and murderers from murdering ?

What exactly do US police do that does not meet with your approval ?

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What is my point, is that the freedom of speech is abused by many people. Abused the same way the censorship is abused. Some wise guy said "the freedom of a man ends, where freedom of another begins" or something along these lines. Internet, TV, or what not, it's always the same. How... CAN we change it?

Word's don't kill, actions however do

Shadowed Luminous has a point, No-one HAS to do anything. Regardless some people do, and everyone can be influenced, otherwise propaganda wouldn't work and discussions like these would be pointless. I guess it all comes down to choice, no-one was forced to attack police, some chose to and likely had more reason for doing so than song lyrics; I think what Cromell is trying to point out is that the lyrics of this song may have given fuel to a flicker.

Cromell is correct in saying there should be signs of disaproval, censoring speech 'for the greater good' however doesn't work in favour of civil peace. If the band really did just want to incite violence they should be punished, making figurative martyrs out of them (by putting them in jail for example) would only give more fuel to their supporters and make them believe that their views are being oppressed. While I loathe governt beuracracy perhaps the best response to this is a public statement by the polish government adressing the reasons for the violent feelings toward the police.

As aries and luminous have pointed out censoring this wouldn't necesarily have assisted matters.

I disagree with aries on one point however, censorship can be complete. Should browsing the internet be censored in Australia it must be monitored in some way, be that by a program or a group of people; is it really such a stretch to censor what people say on the internet, what people send each other? Aries hit it on the head: "Where does it stop?"

Shadowed Luminous, I have nothing against US police. I merely stated my belief, the differences in privelleges between PL and US cops (and alike) will gradually disappear.

And I did not said anywhere that PL cops can only "wag a finger" at someone. They are simply more limited in the use of firearms, i. e. agains a criminal without a gun. I will not disgress any more into this matter.

Mersein, a *complete* censorship of internet would be a very difficult and expensive task. There is simply too much data to be processed. Programs need some solid criteria to deem the site banned for a user, like, "if (heavy language) found = block" and knowing the criteria, you can easily avoid being censored by a program. From my personal experience I have learned that censor programs are more irritating than effective.

And then there's the problem of e-mails and personal conversations. As far as I know no one (especially organisations that would be in charge of internet censorship) cannot read your personal stuff (legally, I mean) without a court warrant (is that how it's called in english? ^^ I hope you know what I mean ;P) so, in fact, they would go against the right to privacy (and the Constitution in many countries).

First things first... It's spelled 'fuck' and 'digress' not 'fuk' and 'disgress'... And you're using the word 'digress' incorrectly anyway... ('cause knowledge is power! :p)

I'm not gonna bother quoting each specific piece that I wish to address, so I'm afraid you guys will just have to sort through it yourselves...

About the music inspiring the actions... On my computer, I have 6000 songs or so. At least 1000 of them are about violence, yet I am one of the least violent people that I know. Example, here's some lyrics to one of the songs (Disasterpiece by Slipknot) I have on my computer:

Quote :

I wanna slit your throat and fuck the wound
I wanna push my face in and feel the swoon
I wanna dig inside, find a little bit of me
Cuz the line gets crossed when you don't come clean

I would NEVER cut someone's throat unless it is in self defense, and I certainly would not put any body parts into the wound. Why? Because I am mentally stable. Those would would take the lyrics seriously and do what they say are those who are likely to do such a thing anyway. I'm fairly certain it was said before, but even if the song in question had never been released, the actions would have likely happened still. It's the same thing as people blaming video games for violence. If anything is to blame, IMO, it's the parenting of the person. But the parents never take responsibility, and so...

We get to the actual topic of censorship... It really wouldn't do much good, if any at all. People always find a way to get what they want... Just look at all the pirates on the internet these days... For years game and software developers have been trying to find a way to stop them, yet there hasn't been a single successful way so far. If you try to censor the net, then the same thing would likely happen... People will find a way around the censor. The only way that really has a chance of succeeding would be to make it impossible to modify computer hardware and/or software, but the chances of that happening are slimmer than the chances of me taking off all my clothes, covering myself in shit, heading to a police station, and singing "I feel pretty" to all of them, and I gotta say, there is no way in hell that will ever happen.

I believe that the best course of action is to try to help the parents raise their children. Note that I said 'try' and not 'force'. If you offer help and the offer is not accepted, then you're in no way responsible. If you force your help on others, it not only makes you look bad if it fails, but it also makes it more likely to fail because people tend to dislike being forced into things.


On a final note... About police actions... The US police could use an attitude adjustment. Most of them have a good sense of justice, but are complete pricks. They develop this 'authority figure' personality where are so condescending to people, and sometimes even develop the 'I am the law' personality. I've met about 20 different cops in my life, if not more, and all but one or two of them had those negative qualities in them... But of course, this is about their attitude, not their methods, so I am not so sure if there is any relevance at all to the thread.



Anyway, I've lost the rest of what I was gonna say...

Typos, typos (shit happens, no?)

Back to the topic.

You are right of course, mental stability is necessary and it greatly helps in not becoming an angry idiot, that will kill 17 people with a stone because he plays Tibia and his mom turned off his PC.
The problem are certain... social groups or subcultures that are raised in unconditional hatred towards almost everyone. Young people growing in environment like this have a hard time developing a mental stability. So we come to the point of the mentioned *trying to help parents*. Unfortunately, mostly unwanted help in such groups. Parents tend to believe that they can manage parenting on their own, even when they kinda fail, and they turn down offers of help. Anyhow I agree there should be more and more efforts put into that matter. Helping even one family would be a great success.

Sorry, would have replied earlier but my internet was down. (Conspiracy perhaps )

You raise valid points, censorship of the internet would be time consuming (for programmers and consumers), costly (for the gvernment of Aus and hence the people of Aus) and essentially pintless, as you say, they are more irritating than effective. It is for these reasons and my (perhaps irrational) fear of the government being able to access and control what reaches me and what I send to others that I don't want my government to put this in place.

As stated before censorship can be a slippery slope, to be effective it has to be heavily monitored, which is hard to do because like the censoring itself it would be cost and time consuming.

I believe I understand what you mean with your point about the legality of looking into the records of a countries citizens and censoring these being illegal but let me pose two things here;

1) who makes the law?
2) what is to stop government *sanctioned* agencies -that citizens may or may not be aware of- bending or breaking the law with government approval.

I like the Australian government system, you know, seperation of powers etc. and I don't believe tat something like this could happen in Aus any time soon; my point here I guess is that I dn't want to give censorship anywhere to start and thatsometimes the ex examples of something - ie COMPLETE government control- can illustrate the spirit of a thing.

Ask yourself: Where does censoring something that is public domain leave us and why would we want to censor?

Yay for paranoia!!

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