Subs VS Dubs!

That's right, it's time for the ol' question of anime! Do you prefer subs or dubs, and why?


Honestly, I prefer dubs. Why? A lot of the time in anime, there's too much going on to fully view the art and read subtitles. Eyes can't look in two places at once, after all. There's also the issue of finding accurate subs. It isn't usually a huge issue, but a lot of subbed stuff that I have seen have had broken english. Yeah, it might be a direct translation, but what harm would it do to change it so the english flows better, as long as it does not change the meaning? (You'd be surprised at how many people have problems with that. At least, I was surprised by it.)

One argument that people have for subs is that you lose the meaning of some things. Honestly, I've always thought that that statement is a bit stupid. Think about it... Dubs are just vocalized subs. You wouldn't lose any more than you would during the subbing process.

Another argument people have are notes. But again, if a note is needed in subs, there's no reason the same note can't be in a dub either. In fact, I know quite a few dubbed animes that have notes in them.

Yet another argument is editing. Admittedly, this can be an issue in certain animes. Some are 'kiddified' when translated to english. This has never happened to an anime that I truly like, however, so I have never had a problem with it.

Last argument for subs: Voice actors. This is a two part argument... The first part is that there are not enough voice actors. Fair enough, there could be more english voice actors. That being said, I've almost never had the problem that sub-viewers complain about: When they hear the voice of someone from another anime, all they can think about is that anime. Most of the time the voice does not sound exactly the same anyway, similar at best. The second part is the "lack of emotion". There have been very few animes that I have seen that have had this problem. What the problem really is, in my opinion, is that some people just can't detect the emotion in english voices. English vocal emotions are more subtle than Japanese ones. There is also the occasional issue of over-acting, but again, that's rather rare. Not as rare as lack of emotion.

All that being said, I am not against subs. I can watch subbed anime if no dubbed anime is available. I just prefer dubbed.



So what's your choice, and why?

i personally believe that you should watch stuff the way it was meant to be watched, without alterations or anything. for example if something was in english, and i was japanese, i wouldnt watch it in japanese(unless of course i was terribly desperate).

this applies to anime i guess, it always feels awkward, seeing as sometimes they dont even take the effort to make the english dubbers stop using japanese honorifics, saying senpai/sama etc. in english, is just stupid, either remove it completely or replace it with something appropriate. it just sounds retarded. It always feels like they put little effort into dub's for some reason, they should just shave a few bucks off the price and make DVD's subbed only, without english audio track(IMO). You also have the problem of the english voice actor sounding like a complete tool, they recycle voice actors like crazy in the dubbing business, at least in japan even if voice actor's are recycled, they take the effort to make themselves sound completely different. take a look at Konata(Lucky Star) and Haruhi(Meloncholy of Haruhi Suzumiya), both voiced by same voice actor, and i wouldnt of known if i didnt read the credits. this cant be said for the dubs ive seen.

that being said there are some anime out there that have been dubbed really well. but overral, dubbing just doesnt feel like theres any heart or soul put into it.

And can you give me a few examples of recycled voice actors? The only reason I ask is because it's not something I have come across too often. And what do you mean by 'heart and soul'?

u serious? all dubs sound the same to me. granted i havent watched many. but those i have watched, i was like hey, this dude voiced naruto also, or like, hey look, it sounds like the whole death note cast also did bleach, etc. even through the years, its like they never change.

by heart and soul, i mean... u know when u watch an anime, and it just feels like they put alot of hard work into making it, that feeling just gives the anime that much more substance.

now in contrast, you know how you watch a dub, and it just feels like they whipped up a bunch of random people, gave em some lines... and thats all they did, it feels like all they do is pick them from a pool of people they already have working for funimation, madman etc. without giving much thought as to how well they will represent the character... bye bye substance.

though afro samurai was pretty damn good.

theariesfantasy wrote:

u serious? all dubs sound the same to me. granted i havent watched many. but those i have watched, i was like hey, this dude voiced naruto also, or like, hey look, it sounds like the whole death note cast also did bleach, etc. even through the years, its like they never change.

Funny how they don't all sound the same to me...

theariesfantasy wrote:

by heart and soul, i mean... u know when u watch an anime, and it just feels like they put alot of hard work into making it, that feeling just gives the anime that much more substance.

Yeah, and I get the feeling with subs or dubs. But then again, I watch anime for the art and story, not the voice acting.

theariesfantasy wrote:

now in contrast, you know how you watch a dub, and it just feels like they whipped up a bunch of random people, gave em some lines... and thats all they did, it feels like all they do is pick them from a pool of people they already have working for funimation, madman etc. without giving much thought as to how well they will represent the character... bye bye substance.

I don't feel that way at all. But tell me... The english dubs you have seen... Did you watch subbed versions first? People tend to latch on to the first version that they see, and you are obviously more likely to have watched subbed versions of any dubbed anime you might have watched.

Funny little fact: I read the Death Note manga before watching the anime. When I did watch the anime, I watched the english dub, then the original. I happen to like each in the order that I saw them: Manga, Dub, Sub. Living proof of what I mean to say.

Personally, I like subs over dubs. My reason is that for me, it feels better in japanese. The mouth movements, and actions were built around the japanese dialogue, so sometimes when english is put in, it just doesn't fit for me. And a lot of the time, because of how words differ in syllables betweeen english and japanese, they completely change important dialogue to suit flap movement (the mouths moving when talking).

Now, that's not to say I hate dubs, as I do like some. Majority of English dubbing companies suck, they really do. But a few put time and effort into squeezing out every bit of story they can from the japanese version.

I do, though, also feel that because the characters are meant to look like westernized versions of the japanese, that the voices often fit them better in Japanese.

I don't have the problem of watching action, and reading dialogue though, since I have a wide peripheral range, and i am able to watch the action, and read the text with my peripheral view, so subs don't make me lose anything from what's going on.


Though let me add this note: when I used to watch only dubs, and switched to japanese, it felt awkward as hell. I hated it. I thought it was stupid. But, I found the only way to move through a series I enjoyed that was just being released in the US was to watch it in japanese. Over time though, I began to appreciates the minor nuances the japanese voice actors would have over the english voice actors, and the fact that they seemed to fit the characters more.

For me, the Japanese voices just fit the roles better, as sometimes you have the most flat and bland voice for a ahcaracter in the english dub, that was a very powerful and strong voice in the japanese dub.

Now, the obvious fact is that this is my opinion, and I'm not knocking anyone who enjoys english dubs, as I do too, I just prefer the japanese dub (with sub) more often than the english dub.

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I don't feel that way at all. But tell me... The english dubs you have seen... Did you watch subbed versions first? People tend to latch on to the first version that they see, and you are obviously more likely to have watched subbed versions of any dubbed anime you might have watched.

not at all, i watched naruto first in english, and was like hey, this is terrible, then my mate was like, dude its better in japanese, so i got my hands on all the eps of first season in japanese... and it was. pretty bad example, but yea.

though i really liked digimon(the first and second season)and zoids in english, and have never watched it in japanese. im not saying all dubs suck, just most of them.

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Now, the obvious fact is that this is my opinion, and I'm not knocking anyone who enjoys english dubs, as I do too, I just prefer the japanese dub (with sub) more often than the english dub.

that, and theres also the fact that the sub gets released like, a year before the dub.

i prefer sub over dub, the reason why i do this is because the voices in English seem out of place and that annoys me a bit whereas when i watch it in Japanese i can feel the emotion, and i have tried to watch some dubs but still couldn't get into them like soul eater i watched all the episodes in Japanese and then i heard that it was going to be dubbed by Funimation, so i waited a few months and they released a few promos with the dub and i could kind of feel the emotions but it just didn't really make me feel wow i want to watch this is dub.

i think the only dub thats good is dragon-ball Z they got the voices right with the English actors, I'm not saying dubs are rubbish it just depends on the person really thats why I prefer subs to dubs.

i have to say dubs fail over all. but there are a few dubs that are better then then subs.

for example have you ever tried to watch hellsing as a sub. (i couldn't stop laughing after i heard Alcurd's voice) ii had to stop watching it. then i watched the dub and thought it was a great anime. another example is full metal alchemist it is another anime i say sounds much better as a dub. (and i mean the old one not blood brothers by the way)

I much prefer dubs.

I don't like reading the subtitles because I don't like reading whilst trying to watch something. My brain gets all frizzly and my eyes cross. Plus the voices are often well-chosen and fit the character well, i.e. Light Yagami, Edward Elric, Alucard. Though the last character's VA also voices Albel Nox, another favourite character of mine, but I digress.

I prefer subs to dubs mostly due to the fact that I never like listening to the corporate dubs... or the voice actors who almost always either lack emotion or sound like they are faking emotion. That being said, If I have never watched an anime in japanese, I will watch it in english if I have too. Inuyasha and Yu Yu Hakusho being prime examples.

So far I've never had a problem reading the subs, and taking in the image (without losing much meaning) in one go. If I miss something I will just watch the part a few more times.

I'm sorry, but people who hate/dislike TL Notes are idiots. TL Notes are one of the best things about watching the anime. Take, for instance, Gintama, the anime itself is pretty good but if you didn't have the TL Notes, watching it would make a lot of the episodes either not funny, or just hard to understand. (lost where I was going here)

As far as recycling voice actors. I have no problem with that. And as far as recognizing voice actors in multiple anime. That's something you just have to deal with, there is only a finite number of VA's. As an example of what someone above said, Watch FMA subbed and listen to Ed, then go watch bleach and listen to Hitsugaya, Same voice actor but the only time they sound similar to me is when Hitsugaya freaks out because someone called him short (and like Ed he blows it way out of proportion).





(what's with me and big posts now?)

Me will also go with subs....
Why?

Well, the first reason is that I basically am used to watch anime subbed now, so when I tried to watch it subbed, it just did not sound right to me....
Another reason is that I believe that I should watch the original sound and not dubbed "fake" (sorry for this word)
I do that with movies as well....
Third reason: Well I don't want to argue with anyone, but for me, I think that Japanese people give real emotions into dubbing that and english voice actors just read the text without anything.... it may seem the same as second reason, but for me it is not...
Fourth reason: This goes probably only for me, but sometime I can follow subtitles better than spoken word... you know, english is not my native language...
Fifth reason: So, basically, subbed anime are easier to access than dubbed ones... and subbing is faster...

I shall leave it at this.... these are just my opinions, not trying to offend anyone....

Now THIS is emotionless:






So tell me, all you subs lovers, do you prefer to play games with Japanese voices as well? Same concept, different media.

This is a matter of opinion thread, not a debate, nor a lynch mob for those who do or don't like subs. I request we keep it from getting there too. (This is not directed at anyone, as nobody has made it such, but I am just being preemptive)

Now to answer your question Ryojin, yes, I do actually prefer to play japanese games with the original Japanese voices. Some games though, depending on the voice actors used, I enjoy in the english dub format. I enjoy english dubs along with japanese dubs, but it all depends on the voice actors.

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So tell me, all you subs lovers, do you prefer to play games with Japanese voices as well? Same concept, different media.

Japanese voices please. Star ocean 4 is an epic example, the only time i felt emotion from the voice actors was right at the end when Reimi was yelling out for Edge. Good game btw, but yea. Even though i dont fully understand the language, I can still make fairly accurate guesses as to what theyre saying, like i Eternal Sonata, theres no subs in combat or anything, but its still good.

At least, there should ALWAYS be an option to switch between english and japanese audio, if they got enough time to make the subtitles, how hard is it to add an option, get sound files from X instead of Y. or how about they dont bother with english audio, and make the game even better considering sound files take up a fair bit of space whereas simple subtitles dont.

Why don't they include the option for Japanese audio? Because of filesize. Most of the time there is no room to include a whole extra audio set for the entire game. That, and most people would prefer to use english audio anyway. Why do they just choose to not bother with english voices? Because then the game wouldn't sell worth shit in english speaking countries. Again, this is because most people would prefer english audio in their games and don't want to bother with a game in subs.

Funny note: The only people I have seen say that they prefer Japanese games to use the original Japanese audio are all semi-to-full hardcore anime fans.



Last question: If you close your eyes and focus on the audio when watching an english cartoon, tv show, movie, commercial, or whatever, do you still think that the voices lack emotion, or is that limited to anime only?


I've almost got all the pieces of information I need...

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Why don't they include the option for Japanese audio? Because of filesize. Most of the time there is no room to include a whole extra audio set for the entire game.

i beg to differ, DLC is a great way to provide extra stuff to customers, and if they arent going to put it into the game, then they should allow us to download it at the very least, i certainly wouldnt mind. Or how about provide an extra DVD that allows you to install the voice pack to your xbox360/ps3, it would certainly make Limited Editions much more awesome.

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That, and most people would prefer to use english audio anyway. Why do they just choose to not bother with english voices? Because then the game wouldn't sell worth shit in english speaking countries. Again, this is because most people would prefer english audio in their games and don't want to bother with a game in subs.

Most people that play japanese rpg's and games watch anime also. It is ALOT easier to port a game from japanese to english, but just adding subtitles, costing almost nothing, instead of hiring voice actors, and having to put up with bad reviews due to the voice acting. the first option seems more financially viable to me.

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Last question: If you close your eyes and focus on the audio when watching an english cartoon, tv show, movie, commercial, or whatever, do you still think that the voices lack emotion, or is that limited to anime only?

Nope, theyre perfectly fine, il answer with an example, a first string sports team, is ALWAYS better then a second string sports team. First string for anime is Japanese voice actor's, second string English.

theariesfantasy wrote:

i beg to differ, DLC is a great way to provide extra stuff to customers, and if they arent going to put it into the game, then they should allow us to download it at the very least, i certainly wouldnt mind. Or how about provide an extra DVD that allows you to install the voice pack to your xbox360/ps3, it would certainly make Limited Editions much more awesome.

Again, most gamers wouldn't be interested in that, so there isn't much of a point doing something like that for a small group of people.

theariesfantasy wrote:

Most people that play japanese rpg's and games watch anime also. It is ALOT easier to port a game from japanese to english, but just adding subtitles, costing almost nothing, instead of hiring voice actors, and having to put up with bad reviews due to the voice acting. the first option seems more financially viable to me.

Again, the game would not sell as near as well as it would if dubbed. And really, how many dubbed games get their scores knocked down because of bad voice acting? I certainly haven't seen that many credible reviews that do that. Hell, a direct port with subs would get the review score knocked down even more because it makes the developers look too cheap/lazy to even dub it.

And somehow I doubt that most people who play Japanese RPGs also watch anime. Why would I say that? Because I work in the gaming industry, therefore I know a shitload of gamers. I know many people who play Japanese RPGs but don't watch anime. Besides, what the hell does that have to do with the quoted text anyway? O.o

I will agree with Ryojin on this. Japanese RPGs are actually played more often by the non-anime watchers. The two are not the same, and don't require one to get the other. Also, majority of anime watchers in Amerca and Europe prefer a dub of their language to japanese dub and sub. The internet is a large place, and quite often people with the same views gather together, and thus it may seem like there are more sub lovers than dub lovers, but that's not true.

So in truth, the gaming industry would lose money to only come out with japanese dub+sub. Now, I will say that any RPG coming out on the PS3 should have the option, because they have an abundance of space left on the disc at the end. Especially with the new double-sided double layered blue-ray discs coming out, a ps3 game will have 200gb of available space, and thus there should be no reason to not do it for PS3.

Now, technically we're all getting off topic here, because this is the Anime discussion section, and though the question was generalized to subs vs. dubs, it has now become a gaming discussion in majority of the sense, so if we wish to continue this discussion, I suggest making a discussion thread about it in the Gaming section.

On another note, some voice actors are terrible, some are really good. Personally, I can watch dubs, and feel emotion, but certain VA's and dubbing companies suck in my opinion. Viz Media is one that is terrible, with only 2 or 3 good VA's (I like Jonny Yong Bosch...I admit it).

But the same thing goes for Japanese dubbing too. Some voice actors are terrible. Some are great. Personally, I feel more emotion from the japanese because their voice tendancies are different than westerners, and they can hit certain pitches and tones that most western voice actors can't or don't do. Also, I feel when watching the anime, the voices fit the characters better because the characters are usually drawn as westernized japanese. This is my opinion, my choice, and thus not a fact to be disputed and argued with in a debate.

This is a discussion thread about OUR reasons, not an arguement thread about why your way is better. Keep it that way.

Viper718 wrote:

Also, majority of anime watchers in Amerca and Europe prefer a dub of their language to japanese dub and sub. The internet is a large place, and quite often people with the same views gather together, and thus it may seem like there are more sub lovers than dub lovers, but that's not true.

The hardcore anime fans, however, all seem to prefer subs to dubs.

Viper718 wrote:

Personally, I feel more emotion from the japanese because their voice tendancies are different than westerners, and they can hit certain pitches and tones that most western voice actors can't or don't do.

Oh, thank you for saying that, I've been waiting for a reason to say this: Pitch does NOT equal emotion. A lot of people say that Japanese voices have more emotion when the reality is that all they have most of the time are broader pitch ranges in their speech.

Viper718 wrote:

This is a discussion thread about OUR reasons, not an arguement thread about why your way is better. Keep it that way.

Chill, man... If it does turn into a full blown debate, all you have to do is move the thread. I'm thinking that perhaps I should have placed the thread there in the first place, that section could use a good debate. But at any rate, not once have I said that dubs are better.

theariesfantasy wrote:

i personally believe that you should watch stuff the way it was meant to be watched, without alterations or anything. for example if something was in english, and i was japanese, i wouldnt watch it in japanese(unless of course i was terribly desperate).

this applies to anime i guess, it always feels awkward, seeing as sometimes they dont even take the effort to make the english dubbers stop using japanese honorifics, saying senpai/sama etc. in english, is just stupid, either remove it completely or replace it with something appropriate. it just sounds retarded. It always feels like they put little effort into dub's for some reason, they should just shave a few bucks off the price and make DVD's subbed only, without english audio track(IMO). You also have the problem of the english voice actor sounding like a complete tool, they recycle voice actors like crazy in the dubbing business, at least in japan even if voice actor's are recycled, they take the effort to make themselves sound completely different. take a look at Konata(Lucky Star) and Haruhi(Meloncholy of Haruhi Suzumiya), both voiced by same voice actor, and i wouldnt of known if i didnt read the credits. this cant be said for the dubs ive seen.

that being said there are some anime out there that have been dubbed really well. but overral, dubbing just doesnt feel like theres any heart or soul put into it.

I understand this is not in the "watch" category but the thought still applies . Ever read a book like the Bibe before ? Well if the law of "Expereincing things as they were created" was in place you probably would not have as it would have been written in Hebrew . Dubbing itself is not bad , you only seem angry with it due to some people who "do it badly". The whole "Sama, sempai" thing could be considered a way to keep the anime closer to it's original status. Who says the Dubbers don't put effort into their voice acting ? A feeling is not the one step needed to condemn something.

It differs what i prefer.. I watch nearly all my anime in japanese with english subs. But Im watching InuYasha in dub version (english), because i just like the voices better there..
I like to watch subbed anime because i like to learn japanese words and terms. I have learned alot in that way..
Sooo.. most subs, but I can watch dubbed too

for me personally it has to be subs, the japanese voice acting just hits the emotion better, i've obviously seen some dub's but when i watch them it's just weird, i've seen a few episodes of naruto, one piece and bleach dubbed and i didn't really like them, i liked the series but the voice acting made me turn away from it.

The japanese can somehow hit your emotions like in One piece, some of the latest episodes or during the water 7 arc have some emotional scenes.

So yeah subs all the way for me

RCpaladin123 wrote:

for me personally it has to be subs, the japanese voice acting just hits the emotion better, i've obviously seen some dub's but when i watch them it's just weird, i've seen a few episodes of naruto, one piece and bleach dubbed and i didn't really like them, i liked the series but the voice acting made me turn away from it.

The japanese can somehow hit your emotions like in One piece, some of the latest episodes or during the water 7 arc have some emotional scenes.

So yeah subs all the way for me

Nonsense

Just because you are used to subbed anime does not mean that it hits everyone's emotions better. The only real difference is the darn language and if you can honestly argue that speaking japanese gains you a better chance to emotionally connect with your audience , than you've lost your mind ....

I do admit that I have seen 1 (And I quite literally mean 1) instance where a voice acting choice baffled me in the english dub but thats for another day

Sorry if any of this was offensive, I am quite passionate about things

Shadowed Luminous wrote:

Nonsense

Just because you are used to subbed anime does not mean that it hits everyone's emotions better. The only real difference is the darn language and if you can honestly argue that speaking japanese gains you a better chance to emotionally connect with your audience , than you've lost your mind ....

Though I agree with the "better chance to emotionally connect" line, in the sense that that type of arguement makes no sense, I disagree with your comment of "being used to subs". I was a dub watcher all my life until just a couple years ago. Personally, I think that except on a few good ocassions, you don't often get the really good english dubbers. It's even worse in other languages. And I'm not even talking about the voices, though sometimes the voices for a character make no sense. I'm talking about execution.

I am in no way saying japanese dubbers are the gods at the execution of dialogue. Far from it. I have seen many cases where I go "Wtf, that was terribly done", but I have more often seen that with the English dubbers.

Now, I have made the arguement of pitch before, and Ryojin ohh so kindly dismissed pitch as not emotion, but he did seem to overlook the fact that someone who can convey emotion well with a large range of pitch variation can then produce a much higher quality emotional dialogue or scene. This in no way means English VA's can't, haven't, or won't. Hell, in many instances I have also found myself going "Wow, that VA made that role his own, and showed some true emotion". At times, also, the English VA is better than the Japanese VA at producing the ranges of emotion.

Another thing I will bring up, even though I dismissed it earlier in this post, is that some of the time, a voice fits a character. I will give a terrible example for it, mostly because it's fresh in my mind, but Suzume (Suzie) from Koniki no Gash Bell (Zatch Bell) is god awful in the English dub, and makes you just not want her around ever. In the japanese dub (which I JUST started watching recently, as I had watched the English dub prior, and can say I very much enjoyed it), she has a much more enjoyable voice, and it makes you want to like her more. Now, this arguement has no great amount of substance, as another VA could have been put in that place to make the role better/worse. This statement is very true, and it is not often the case that a voice is incorrect for a role in the English dubs, but it does happen from time to time.

Now, you can also bring out the arguement of the "lip flaps" meeting the correct spoken dialogue, but I can easily overlook this (though I know some can't). My biggest problem, though, with English dubs is sometimes, to meet the lip flaps, they change the line to something terribly awful, or even worse, change the dialogue to something totally different that changes the type of person you see the character as. This scenario doesn't happen all to often, but it does happen on ocassion.

I do want to say, though, there are many animes which I absoutely LOVE the English dubs for. I can watch either English or Japanese, but sometimes I enjoy the English dub more, most of the time because I find the English VAs to be better in those animes. This like of Japanese dub over English dub isn't a pigheaded thing in which you hate all English dubs (though some people are like that. There are also some on the opposite side of the spectrum that are like that too, and will just dismiss Japanese dubs immediately, or the predispositions will cause them to dislike it no matter what.), what it is, is someone's tastes, in which they find a general enjoyment of one thing over another. People will argue over which is better, because they want to be right, but the truth is neither side is right and neither side is wrong. Opinion is opinion, and feelings are feelings. People can feel that they enjoy one side better than the other. The obvious fact, is that my entire post here is my opinion on what I feel to be my own outlook on the topic.

I am not making a concrete statement saying my way is the only way. I am saying my way is my way, and some agree, and some don't agree. It's a simple process of choice versus direct influence, or affectual changes. Nobody can be wrong on this topic unless they make a hard statement saying something IS this way. And obviously there are those who WILL say things like that, and those that will argue that their point is the only valid point, but the cold hard truth is that it isn't.

Now, I do wish to make sure it is known that majority of my post is not directed at Shadowed Luminous. Really, only the first paragraph, and some minor snippets inside the post are directed at him, just to bring a point of disputing his claim. The rest of the post is just my thoughts on the whole process, and I hope nobody takes it as I am directing the entire front at him, because I find it to be obvious I am not, since most of my post has nothing to do with his, or little to do with his, and is more-on my opinion on the entirety of this discussion.

I also want to make this point clear. I am not being deffinetive in this post. I am not trying to end the discussion. Don't take it as I am saying this discussion is over. I would like the topic to continue (as I know it obviously will), and grow into a more seasoned discussion. I am not dictating what should be said or done in this topic either, I am just portraying my hopes, so nobody thinks I am trying to dictate the flow of anything.

Thank you for your understanding, and time.

Your Most Highly Regarded Overlord,
Tinkie Winkie